Specifically, can it be “Right” for a practicing Christian to knowingly break a law forbidding the employment of an “illegal alien”?
Introduction.
In prior FB posts, I have provided some background on the two men from Guatemala (GTM) that I recently discovered were in fact, “illegal aliens”. Heretofore, I had blithely believed they were “legal” because they have viable social security numbers that match with their names and that are accepted by the State and the Feds. It should have tipped me off when they said that they could not go back to their families in GTM and then return to the US. But it was not until I asked them straight up, “are you legally here in the US?” that they both said no and that they were subject to being deported at any time. One has been here 16 years and the other 13. Neither of them is an “employee” of mine – they were just doing some short turn clean up work for me at my farm. But I said that if they did have the skill set my company needed and since they had legit SSN, I would hire them. That is when Jerry Mothershead provided chapter and verse pointing out that is a federal offense to knowingly hire an illegal alien. That has called for more thought since I am not big on breaking serious laws.
To clarify, I am by no means proposing that it would be right for a practicing Christian to employ any or all illegal aliens. No, this is to be considered on a case by case basis with the only justification for breaking the law being that the practicing Christian firmly believes that he is being called by God to hire a specific illegal alien and thereby knowingly break a serious federal law.
The first two Points that I will address in this discussion are:
#1. When/why would you go to God and seek His permission to break a law? Actually, in my nearly 50 years as an adult, I have never once gone to God and asked Him if He wanted me to break a law. (I may have as a kid.)
#2. How would you determine if God is actually “calling” you to take such a radical step and break a serious law?
The “Counterpoint” will be that it is against the law to knowingly employ and illegal alien. Period. Break one law, where would the slippery slope end? Or whatever counterpoints some of my conservative rule bound FB friends wish to use to undermine my arguments for breaking such a law. I am expecting some cogent and persuasive Counterpoints. Should be fun.
Point 1. Why it seems to be the right thing to do.
I am just going to focus on one of the two men. The one who is 53 year and has been in the US for 16 years without ever returning home. Earlier, I gave him the moniker “Older” . Here I will refer to him as “Juan”.
Has needed skill set and track record I need.
I am going to change one material fact from his actual situation. Juan has landscape skills – not skills that I need as the owner/manager of apartment complexes. So, for this discussion, I am going to assume that Juan is an apartment maintenance tech with comparable skills I need, and with the work ethic that Juan’s actual employer ascribes to Juan. His employer says that he has been one of his longest employed workers, and is one of the most reliable, positive, and productive employees he has ever had.
Even so, having the skill set I need, and an exceptional track record are not sufficient to consider breaking the law.
His story.
Juan chose to come to America – illegally – in 2006. He crossed the border in AZ, I don’t know the details. I do know that he was able to obtain a legitimate social security number recognized by the State and Feds. The reason that he came I find very compelling. He is from a very poor family and like his forefathers and siblings, received virtually no formal education. To attend a decent school in GTM costs money – something that Juan simply could not earn in GTM with his education and skillset. However, by coming to the USA, albeit illegally, he has always been able to find work and make enough to send home to his family so that his four children could all receive a decent education. Now, the only way he had surplus money, working at little more than minimum wage, was by denying himself most pleasures and living a very austere life.
Did his plan and his sacrifices pay off? Absolutely, from his perspective. His family was able to move into a better home and all four of his children have been able to get a good education. Three of them are out of school and now have good jobs – in GTM. They are helping support their mother and they will all be able to provide for a good education for their children. Juan’s sacrifice has enabled his family to break the cycle of poverty. That he can find joy in life separated as he has been for so long from those he holds most dear demonstrates what a deep and mature soul Juan has developed. And that, according to Solzhenitsyn, is what life is all about.
Even so, Juan’s great and inspiring story is not a sufficient justification for a practicing Christian to deliberately break a serious law.
Time to seek God’s Guidance.
However, combined with the other factors, I would feel justified in seeking God’s guidance as to whether He would want me to hire Juan and break a law. Only if I felt God was calling me to do this would I actually move forward, hire Juan and deliberately break the law.
Counter Point 1. No – you cannot break laws and have it ever be the right thing to do.
Since no one has specifically provided a counter to Point #1, when I posted it on Sep 6, I have gone back over the Facebook postings that some of my conservative FB friends posted previously when I first raised the question about hiring illegal aliens. Below is a complication of some of the more noteworthy counterpoints. I did not spend much time on this so if you made a good post that I missed, please send it to me. Also should anyone want to make a new and better counterpoint, please post it on my FB page and I will make modifications.
John Hashagen.
Aug 18
David give it up you are not only part of the problem but are the problem with your banter that has no end. I guess that you can chose which laws are good and those which you think are bad and follow the good and ignore the bad by David’s opinion, this is one of our problems in America. We are a nation of laws and if you don’t like the law then get it changed, until then it is the law follow it or suffer the result of not doing what the law said.
Subsequent post…. Bob Crowley Stop your garbage Bob, What is legal about Illegal if you and David want the law changed then get with the elected rep’s to change the law. Those employers who hire Illegal Immigrants need to be fined and jailed as well as the people who provide them with the fake documents, and the citizens like David who allow them to roam our country as they wish. I posted a series of pictures of the beach in Normandy where local people marked the sand where our service men died so we can have the freedoms you and I as well as David enjoy today and neither you or David chose to like or dislike the post showing showing the bodies scratched in the sand. Those servicemen over 5000, gave their lives so you can speak out as you and David do, and they fought to rid the world of the Nazis and they did. Our family lost relatives on that beach for our freedom God Bless America. Get the law changed should that be what you want until then follow the law like the rest of America.
Subsequent post Sep 3 We are a nation of laws should one not like a specific law work within the system to change the law. Just because one does not think the law is right does not give one the right to break the law. This is the only comment I will make on this subject, as I have asked over the years several contractors to leave because they were employing Illegal Workers.
Jerry Mothershead
Aug 17. David Treppendahl breaking the law is a personal decision, but one should be prepared to accept whatever punished is meted out – in this world or the next. You obviously believe in situational ethics. I just wonder if you taught your children that it is ok sometimes to break a law they don’t agree with. Also wonder what your tax returns look like. Funny, I thought of you yesterday – went to a restaurant that had a big sign in front “NOW HIRING. WE USE EVERIFY.:
Subsequent post Aug 21 The ONLY justification for hiring illegal aliens is the inability to find any qualified Americans or DOCUMENTED aliens to do the job. Do not even try to compare your actions with Jesus and the Saints. Older and Younger could have applied for work visas, and there are literally MILLIONS around the world who are in the same position v-v financial hardships as they were before they skirted our laws. You are the prototypical liberal who weakly attempts to justify your position and Resorts to ad hominem attacks on those who disagree with you. Don’t even dare to try to cloak yourself in Christianity on this one, because that fish don’t swim in this case.
Jerry MothersheadDavid Treppendahl actually, I would do what I have done before. Start a petition to change the law. We are not Nazi Germany, although it would seem we are headed that way with all this woke crap, social justice, and racial equity bs. Wevare also not pre civil rights Jim Crow. Back in 1984 I petitioned, through the courts, to change a law in Maryland that I and many others viewed unjust. Surprise – the Maryland legislature agreed with us, and changed the law. You gotta quit putting your biased attitudes on display. How many “practicing Christians call those who disagree with them names? Somewhat hypocritical IMO.
Response to Jerry’s question: Do practicing call people names? Only when deserved. “You brood of vipers, how can you who are evil say anything good? For the mouth speaks what the heart is full of.” Matt: 12:34.
Bob Lewis –
Sep 2 You need not present any evidence. Laws cannot be selectively broken. EVER. If you say they can, then who’s given the moral “right” do decide which? Opening a can of worms, you are!
Point #1.5 – Positive statements from FB who either agree with me or/and appreciate my perspective.
David Vogel
You are a good man with a good heart. I can tell that from our brief meeting and catch up, which was a joy to me and my family. And now I see why you’ve raised this discussion. In an earlier post I stayed above the messy detail with the biblical post about renderings to God and Caesar. But in fact they are sometimes very hard choices we have to make every day. You are always taking a big risk breaking Caesar’s law, because it’s in the here and now and punishable in many forms. All of us of good conscience need to make these choices in order to live with ourselves, our God, AND Caesar—-he has a big say in the outcomes too if we get caught! Your example of helping illegals is a fraught one, because it is also in the thick of volatile politics, which could change with the next election. “Don’t do the crime if you can’t do the time” is a very apt caution. Bottom line: all of us of good and kind heart need to weigh these considerations every day of our lives—and decide based on what enables us to carry on with style, comfortable in our own skins. God’s mercy is a very nice chaser too. As well as praying for the forgiveness of our sins.
Bob Crowley
David writes informed and considerate posts. Disobeying unjust laws is an act of bravery and kindness. To rail against him in such a personal manner is inconsiderate and low down. Please stop.
Brandon Blaylock
There was a lot of ink spilled on this topic in the Reformation, and Christians are largely unaware. French Huguenots had to decide when it was righteous to take up arms against an evil government, which was killing them. Lex Rex is a great read. A more modern book is The Doctrine of the Lesser Magistrates.
Basically, the Bible has several examples of people who are called righteous by God, who disobeyed their government.
The Hebrew Midwives who refused to kill babies, Rahab the prostitute harbored spies, Peter in Acts 5, and many other examples.
It’s a fascinating subject. The Romans 13 imperative to follow government is not absolute, rather God wants us to serve him first when government is acting ungodly. Bonhoeffer was right to do what he did.
Point 2. Other Reasons that make it seem like the Right Thing to do – “The Role Model”
In previous Facebook Postings, I have advocated for reducing the prison population in Louisiana such that we no longer have the highest incarceration rate in the world. I have also advocated for addressing the problem on the front end by providing adequate funding for the “LA B-3” Program. This program assists low-income mothers in raising their children during those most critical years of human development: Birth to 3 years old.
I have consistently gotten pushback on these ideas from my conservative friends who have said that the problem exists because there are no father figures in the kid’s lives or if there, men are around, they are not positive role models. When I have asked, “Ok, what is your solution for providing positive male roll models?” There has usually been no response, or that the government should disincentive poor (meaning black) women from having children out of wedlock with derelict men. Right. Government should not require people to get vaccinated during a pandemic, but it should get involved in ensuring unmarried black women don’t have children. Difficult to follow that logic.
I agree, we need more positive male role models in America – especially among the poorer working class. But where to find such people and ones who will be heard?
Consider Juan. Here is a man who loves his wife and family so much that he has been willing to make the great sacrifice of coming to America so that he can support them. He lives a Spartan lifestyle – modest housing, very little entertainment, modest car and modest clothes. He saves nearly half of all the money he earns so that he can send it back to provide for his children’s education and to provide a decent residence for his family in Guatemala. Juan is also the oldest and best workers at his company. He has worked there for nearly six years. He is greatly respected by everyone for high work ethic and his gentle nature. Just by being who he is, Juan is in a position to serve as a role model to the dozen or so men that work with him.
Juan is different and good. Why is he so joyful when he has so little? Why is his Christian faith so important to him? If he really cares about his children as he says he does, how can he bear being separated from them for 15 years? Juan is open and easy to talk to despite his sketchy English. He serves as a role model to the younger men around him, not because he preaches to them, but because he demonstrates with how he lives how good men and fathers should live. All he asks for providing this desperately needed service to America is be allowed to remain here few more years before permanently returning to GTM.
I have not delved into Juan’s situation so that I cannot definitively point to men who have had moral paradigm shifts as a result of Juan’s influence. But I imagine it has happened.
In deciding which immigrants we allow to flourish in America, perhaps we should place less of an emphasis on white skinned people with tech skills and more on those who can exemplify moral and family values in low income areas where they live and work. More than making more stuff, America needs to produce more selfless men with good moral character. Engaged properly, Juan can help America Be Great Again.
Be all those good things as they may be, this does not justify a practicing Christian knowingly break a serious law.
Counterpoint 2. A law breaker is just a common criminal.
Jerry Mothershead.
https://www.ssa.gov/pubs/EN-05-10096.pdf?fbclid=IwAR1eWzAWQmgIw_3Mn8dSlJ7YsaQVo0bZZgIUoxZKySUrN1dOsXa01KH0RyE
If they have legitimate ss cards, they should have no problem traveling. If they do not, I am sure your friendly ICE agents can arrange one way tickets home. Then they can come back the way they originally entered the US.My ancestors came to what is now Virginia before the United States existed. The first federal immigration laws came after a SCOTUS ruling in 1875. The moat comprehensive immigration law was passed in 1952. I will say it again, if you don’t like the law, your duty as a US citizen is to work to get it changed, not ignore it and try to justify your actions. Sue in court if you can finding “standing ” and then take it all the way up to the SCOTUS. Otherwise you are no better than a common criminal.
Point 3. When to break a legal law?
Jesus did not attempt to change the laws, nor did his disciples, nor did Paul. When faced with laws they found at odds with the will of God, they broke the laws, And, in most cases they were convicted of capital crimes by the State and executed. Were they just common criminals?
For those of us who are generally law abiding citizens, and also practicing Christians, choosing to break laws falls into one of two categories. Those we are willing to break for our own convenience and pleasure, and those we are only willing to break if we believe that God is calling to do so.
Breaking laws for personal convenience or pleasure.
The first instance includes such things as traffic violations and hunting or fishing laws. I have often chosen to exceed the legal speed limit, not come to full and complete stop at a stop sign, and driven a vehicle beyond the inspection sticker date. I have also chosen, on a few occasions when there was a superabundance of game, to harvest a few more ducks, doves, or speckled trout than the legal limit allowed.
When I chose to break these laws, I hoped I would not be caught but if (and when) I was, I was willing to suffer whatever penalty was forthcoming. But that is not what we are talking about in this discussion.
Breaking a serious law only if “Called”.
This topic has to do with a decision to break a rather serious federal law because I believe that it is what God is calling me to do. So how do you determine if God is actually calling you to do something like that?
In my opinion, the single best answer to that question was offered by Richard Exley in his book “The Making of a Man”. Chapter 43 is entitled: “Finding God’s Will”. The final paragraph of the chapter states:
“As a result of his personal experience, David Wilkerson says, ‘The will of God grows on you. That which is of God will fasten itself on you and overpower and possess your entire being. That which is not of God will die – you will lose interest. But the plan of God will never die. The thing God wants you to do will become stronger each day in your thoughts, in your prayers, in your planning. It grows and grows!’”
Now, I would not go to God with such a request in the first place if I did first believe just cause existed for breaking a law. It would not be something done on a whim. No, I would only bring to God such a question if it first seemed, based on the circumstances, like something I should seriously consider doing. In that event, I would follow the advice of Exley and Wilkerson and submit the situation to God in prayer. If I found that the desire to take an action that was illegal increased over time, then I would do it. If I found that circumstances changed and my reasons or desire for taking the action waned, then I would not do it. That is how I would go about deciding which laws to break or not.
For the record, in my 45 years as a businessman, I have not yet found myself in a situation where I felt called to break a law. However, based on the circumstances related to these two Guatemalans, and especially Juan, were he, an illegal alien, to come to me and be able able to fill a job needed by my company, I would submit this question to God along the lines described by Exley. And, if the feeling waxed, I would break the law and hire Juan. It would be a very minor act of legal disobedience relative to what Jesus and the thousands of martyred saints who followed him did. But, as a practicing Christian, I believe that it would be incumbent upon me to break a law I am called to break. However, if the desire to do so waned, I would refuse to hire Juan.
Point 4 – History shows Christianity does best when people have break the law to practice their faith and dwindles when being a Christian results in increased political power.
History teaches that Christianity is much more vibrant and contagious when it is illegal to be a Christian. Christianity was exploding throughout the Roman empire and beyond when it was illegal to be a Christian. Few things helped spread the faith more than Christians being martyred in the Roman arenas. When Constantine made Christianity the official religion of Rome in 313, it really screwed up and set back the Christian Church. When the Communist Party took over China in 1949, there were less than 4 million Christians in China. The Chicoms made atheism the official religion and Christianity was banned. By 2010, there were 70 million Christians in China. https://berkleycenter.georgetown.edu/…/christianity-s…It is projected that China will have more Christians than any other country by 2030. Meanwhile in Western Europe and the US, where Christianity is still considered the preferred religion and where Christians join together to seek and obtain political power, Christianity is withering.
Bottom line –Christianity thrives where practicing Christians choose to break laws to practice it. Christianity declines when those who call themselves Christians insist on obeying the laws of the land regardless of whether those laws contradict the examples and teachings of Jesus, Paul and the disciples.
Pt 5 – This discussion ONLY applies to Practicing Christians. Only they should put serving the God of the NT above being good citizens and observing the laws of the land.
The question is not as much about breaking a specific law by knowingly hiring an illegal alien. The key point is that “practicing Christians” are not law abiding American citizens first and foremost. Their first duty, before being “good citizens”, is to live their lives in way that they believe serves God with “God” being the triune God of The Father, Son and Holy Spirit. Not Allah, nor Yahweh, nor Krishna or any other god but the God described in the New Testament.
From studying the NT, we learn what Jesus taught and how he lived and how his disciples lived. When push came to shove, they violated their nation’s laws – often committing capital offenses. . They did so when they believed that God was calling them to do so. For example, Paul spent years of his life in prison. He received 39 lashes 5 different times, was beaten with rods 3 times, and was ultimately executed by Roman government. So anyone who says I would never knowingly break a law is either very ignorant of what it means to be a Christian or is simply unwilling to practice what is taught in the NT; they are not “practicing Christians”.
Now, I am not condemning anyone for not being a practicing Christian. There have been millions of marvelous people who have contributed greatly to making the world a better place who were not practicing Christians. (Most of the prominent Founding Fathers were Deists and not practicing Christians. ) However, if you are a practicing Christian, then based on what the NT teaches us, then you need to be willing to break serious laws should you be “called” to do so.
I am a practicing Christian. I endeavor to act in a way that Jesus taught and exemplified. If I am called to hire an illegal alien (which I have not yet been), then I would break the law and hire him and I believe that this would be the “right” (God pleasing) thing for me to do.