My all-time favorite history professor is Dr. Rufous Fears. In his introduction to his Great Courses lectures on Famous Romans and Famous Greeks he says “Some people believe that the universal desire of man is personal freedom. That is wrong. The universal desire of man is power.” This applies to certain driven individuals such as Julius Caesar as well as people groups. If possible, most humans want their group, their tribe, their nation to have more power and wealth than others and they will do what’s necessary to obtain it, keep it, and justify doing so. People lament these days about how “tribal” we have become. Become? This is typically how we have always been..
It is possible to make the case that God as described in the Old Testament was a racist. Take the Amalekites. God was really irked at them for attacking the Children of Israel when they were attempting to enter the Promised Land. So, several hundred years later God commanded Israel’s first king, Saul, to go out and obliterate the entire nation of Amalekites: men, women, children and even their animals. I.e, carry out “ethnic cleansing”. Saul and his army defeated the Amalekites who surrendered to him unconditionally. However, Saul could not bring himself to slaughter every last one of the Amalekites and as a result, Saul permanently fell out of favor with God. Even Jesus discriminated against people groups. When a Canaanite woman asked him to help her daughter, he told her it was not right for him to “take children’s bread and toss it to dogs.” (Imagine that soundbite on CNN today.)
What I am suggesting is that humans were designed with a “we” versus “them” perspective where “we” are a smarter, better, more righteous, more deserving group than “them” who are evil, inferior, and only deserving of being subjugated/discriminated against, if not destroyed. There is an unbroken series of conflicts and wars in human history where the combatants on each side justify maiming and killing their evil foes.
Understanding all this, recognize how radical it was for our Founding Fathers to establish as the centerpiece of their new government the concept that “All Men are Created Equal”. Such a concept flies in the face human nature and history. Two of the most significant people in US history in bringing about this radical concept’s acceptance did not really believe it themselves. Thomas Jefferson, the man who penned those immortal words, did not believe this applied to blacks. That was how he justified enslaving some 600 black souls. How? He “had a suspicion that blacks are inferior to whites in the endowments of both body and mind” and he went on to say that “we will not be able to know this until science gives us the answers.”
Well, scientists set about to meet Jefferson’s challenge to prove scientifically that black’s were inferior to whites. There were several highly acclaimed books published in the early to mid-1800’s by some of the most respected scientists of the day that “proved” that blacks were inferior to whites: Abraham Lincoln was by no means convinced that they were wrong.
In my next posting I will go into more detail on several unanimous US Supreme Court decisions in the early 20th Century affirming that for an immigrant to become an American citizen, he had to be “white”.
In light of all this, is it any wonder that we have found it difficult to assimilate non-whites and especially African Americans into American society? All things considered; we have made remarkable progress.
A key point I want to emphasize here is that because a group of people are tribal and racist does not make them bad or evil, particularly if that is the custom of the times. Jefferson, Washington, and the other slave owners were not evil, they were simply human.
. We will continue this topic on race in Part II.
Most Relevant Comments
Daniel Runkle You have moved from heresy to blasphemy on this post David. I would strongly urge you to remove this terribly offensive post. It is evil, and slanders the Lord God of the Bible. This a totally wrong view of Scripture and God’s Holiness and righteousness. This will be offensive to most Orthodox Christians, and Muslims who believe in the 5 books of Moses as well.
David Treppendahl Daniel Runkle so what is your interpretation of why God demanded that Saul wipe the Amalekites from the face of the earth? Do you disagree that He commanded Joshua to destroy all the people in Canaan? This is what is in our Bible. Do you just pretend it is not there?
Daniel Runkle David Treppendahl it was absolutely not because of their race. That is a slanderous accusation against God. God judged the Amalekites because of their terrible wickedness, not their race! You should definitely repent from your slander, and find a new Church that doesn’t teach the garbage you’re spouting against a Holy God.
Daniel RunkleDavid Treppendahl also, the Amalekites were not a different race. They were descendants of Abraham, by Amalek. So that’s another ignorant part of this slanderous charge against God. as a people/culture, the Amalekites were alot like the modern Taliban. They were a ruthless nation, and executed terrorist attacks and ambushes. God judged Israel when they dealt treacherously in the Old Testament against other people.Whenever God brought Israel in battle against another nation, the wickedness had reached a “fullness” in that nation, and God was rendering judgment (Gen 15:16).Some of those nations worshipped Baal and Molech, which usually involved horrible torture and murder of children and babies.It was a merciful act of God. He is Holy, good, and just, probably saving many of those children from Hell. He is God and we are not.You really need to find a Church that teaches the truth.
Peter Donofrio Daniel Runkle how does God ordering Saul to kill innocent Amalekite women and children factor into your belief that God is kind and merciful, and anything in the Bible to the contrary is blasphemous?
Daniel Runkle David Treppendahl PS, you need to change from the liberal, heretical church you’re getting this thinking from. This is really bad theology you’re following and being influenced by.
Don White Daniel Runkle Neither the Hebrew Scriptures nor the Christian Testaments histories. Neither or without contradiction and neither is extant. Neither the Hebrew Scriptures nor the Christian Testaments are histories and neither have extant texts. Neither are without contradiction and error. What is the “liberal, heretical church?” Jesus was the most inclusive radically loving person in history. What threatens you about the two great commandments of love? What threatens you in the baptismal covenant? Following Jesus is a radically loving and dangerous thing to do. Jesus made it clear, discipleship is not about “belief.” It is about living and acting like Jesus. It is about respecting the dignity of every human being. It is about radical inclusivity.
Daniel Runkle Don White in two words, Bishop Spong. I totally agree on dignity of every human being, and even loving our enemies. However, the God of the Old Testament is the same God as the New Testament. You can’t understand the grace, love and forgiveness of a loving God if you don’t understand what grieves Him with regards to sin. Woe to him who calls good evil and evil good. That’s what the modern Western Episcopal Church blatantly does. Jesus lovingly called people to repent and turn from sin and wickedness. Preaching that sin is OK with God is really not loving people and helping restore people by God’s grace. It’s trying to make them feel good on their highway to Hell.
Authentic love broaches the very socially uncomfortable issue of sin and wickedness. It’s crying out in tears for people to repent from evil.
People often leave off the part of the Great Commission where Jesus says, “teaching them to obey all that I have commanded.”
Don White Daniel Runkle you really need to update your research. What the current data show is the “Christian Evangelicals” have the most dramatic fall in membership. Apparently, Americans are finding them irrelevant in our social challenges.
My doctoral work is in congregational development, this reversal was predicted two decades ago. If you study the history of the ancient church this is clear. The hypocrisy of those not living into the radical Gospel of Jesus was not sustainable.
Ron Perritt Daniel Runkle I just want to understand your post. You say it slanders God which implies you believe the story David told clearly as written is wrong, which means you don’t trust the integrity of what is clearly written about God in the OT. I assume this would also include the story where God sends a death angel to murder innocent Egyptian children.
Daniel Runkle Ron Perritt not at all, and I fully trust the sovereignty of God when He judges, and I believe in the inerrancy of Scripture, OT & NT.
MY objection was David implying God was a racist. That is slanderous. All racial groups equally represent the image of God. It’s crappy cultures and wickedness that God judges, not people based on their ethnicity or racial background.
One day every tribe or tongue will confess that Jesus Christ is Lord. This plan for all the ethos, has been so from the Beginning, OT and NT.
David Treppendahl Daniel Runkle We did not design ourselves. If ALL men sin and ALL men fall short of the Glory of God, it would seem to me that whoever designed humans designed them such that they would sin. So are we to blame Satan for stepping in and re-wiring God’s design? That would certainly give Satan more credit than I think he deserves. Or do we blame Adam and Eve? You are an engineer right? If we all have these sinful traits and dispositions (A=B) , and if God designed us all (B=C), then why does A not equal C?
Daniel Runkle David Treppendahl you and I are both sinful human beings without all the facts. Our human logic is always limited to the facts we’re working with. You’re trying to make logical conclusions on the character God when you only know A, B, C’s, but with God there are alot more facts and letters in the alphabet. Those additional facts can, and usually do, radically change the logical conclusions. You’re simply speculating.
Faith is knowing the truth without the other letters of the alphabet. You’re making some horrifically blasphemous accusations against a Holy and good God.
I put part of the root cause on the terrible, idolatrous and self centered theology of the Episcopal Church. However, I think the root cause may go back further, and was going on back even when we used to duck hunt together at First Pres.
Again, I would advise possibly getting over to Bethany World Prayer Center, or one of the nearby Bible Believing Churches and asking them to pray for you, and counsel you on these things you’re struggling with.
Daniel Runkle the “inerrancy of Scripture” is nonsensical to anyone who studies the writings and the multiple variables for the vast majorities sentences. We don’t have any extant texts. We have never agreed on the canon.
https://www.quora.com/profile/Tyler-Skywalker-1
There are three branches of Christianity: Catholic, Orthodox, and Protestant, and these three branches have different Biblical canons. The New Testament is identical in all three, but each have a different Old Testament. The Catholic Old Testament is based on the Jewish Septuagint, a Greek translation of the first version of the Hebrew Scriptures.
The Orthodox Old Testament includes those Scriptures, as well as a few others from the same time. Within the Orthodox Canon, there are some further differences. For example, some include 3 & 4 Esdras. Some include Psalm 151. The Ethiopian Orthodox Church also includes the Book of Enoch.
The problem has been that the Hebrew canon was not fixed at the time of the translation of the Septuagint. When it was fixed, about 150 A.D., it omitted many of the books of the Septuagint that were written later.
The Protestant Old Testament excludes those later books. Some Protestant Churches, specifically Lutheran, Anglican, and Episcopal, will include most of the Catholic and Orthodox books in a separate section, entitled the Apocrypha.
The King James translation originally included all the books in the Catholic canon, but American versions of the King James translation excluded those books.
Here is a summary of the separate canons:
The Eleven Bibles of Jews and Christians (Don goes on and lists every different book in the bible and provides some comments on many of them.)
Don White Daniel Runkle exactly what is “the terrible, idolatrous and self centered theology of the Episcopal Church?” What is your academic background in Anglican theology and history? What part of the two Great Commandments do you disagree with and why? I am an Episcopal priest. Your allegations are without basis and present as bigoted.
Daniel Runkle Don White rejection of Biblical authority and the inerrancy. Rejection of basic doctrines of Christian Orthodox like the Virgin Birth, Christ alone for salvation to start with, and tbe miracles of Jesus.
The older Episcopal Church used to hold to those Orthodox beliefs. However, Church leaders like Bishop Spong have rejected those fundamentals of the faith, and have taught that things like homosexuality aren’t really so bad, and in some cases claiming that the Biblical admonition’s against sin is archaic and passed away in the New Testament.
Those are just a few of the modern heresies that are out there in the public domain and in Episcopalian literature and writings.
Again, it’s not my disagreement, but rather your corporate definitions disagreement with what Almighty God says in His Word about what love is and what love is not. Adultery is not love. Stealing is not love. Sexual promiscuity is not love. Homosexuality is not love. Coveting is not love. Greed is not love. Materialism is not love. Gluttony is not love.
You have “reimagined” the 1st and 2nd Great Commandments, and fashioned intellectual idols in your own image, likings, and desires. At its core, idolatry is a redefining of who God is and using that idol to world power and influence. Ultimately, God Himself will judge those who refuse to listen and hear the truth of His warnings. I am also a fallen human being, unworthy, yet believing in faith what God warns against the destructiveness of sin.
Only God can judge someone’s heart, but I believe it is loving to speak the truth and warn people against the eventual wrath that will come against all ungodliness.
Don White Daniel Runkle (note, this was not a response to the above post. It came later but I see it as very relevant.) it is nonsensical to consider the text of either the writings in the many versions of the Christian Testament or the various Jewish canons as infallible.
There are no extant and many conflicts within the various texts that we now have. Actually, such a bizarre doctrine would relegate the “Bible” replacing the God of Abraham.
Craig Geevarghese-Uffman David Treppendahl i appreciate the inspiration to understand racism, but this account and conclusion that humans are divinely wired to be racist are problematic. Much could be said. For now, I’ll simply note that you confuse humanity as created and humanity in our fallen state and claim that the fallen state is how we are wired. On the contrary, when we are fully human we are NOT racist. Our essence is manifest in communion with God and each other. The stories you cite are telling the story of our covenant-breaking, not our creation. To know who we essentially are, we don’t look at those stories; we look at the exalted Christ on the Cross, where the triune God reveals what fulfilled humanity looks like.
Kent A Howard Craig Geevarghese-Uffman Yes!
Daniel Runkle Craig Geevarghese-Uffman I totally agree with this insight you have. Likewise, polygamy was something we see in the patriarchs. However, it wasn’t something God was condoning, He was showing the dysfunctional family that results when people violate the one woman one man principle of commanded by the the Kings and the people.
At the same time, it was also demonstrating how he showed grace, forgiveness and redemption to those fallen familys. God’s loving grace is in both the Old and New Testament. God has a loving plan of redemption that He is orchestrating through His Son, Jesus Christ.
David Treppendahl Craig Geevarghese-Uffman Craig as you will see in my next post I admit that God may not be the culprit for our being the way we are – be that as it may, we do have a bent toward tribal/us vrs them thinking and acting. And “we”includes Christians and particularly those who founded the New World. Thanks for reading and wisely commenting on my fb page.
Eric Grandich Years ago, I learned something interesting about human behavior because of something that occurred during the making of the late 60’s movie, Planet of the Apes. There was a very large cast involved in the production of this movie, most actors as primates. The scenes were rehearsed many times over with the actors in street clothes. During lunch breaks, cast members would break off into groups along racial lines to enjoy each other’s company. It was observed however, during full dressed rehearsals and the final shoot, the cast would break into groups based upon which species of primate they were dressed as. The chimps hung out with chimp, apes with apes and orangutans with orangutans, despite the race of the actor underneath the makeup and costume. I think people naturally prefer to be around others that they share common bonds with, not because they think their race is better than another. I’ve read that young children play well together and don’t really see race. I further believe that racism is a conditioned state of mind. It is drilled into us by others for political gain often.
Kent A Howard Eric Grandich I think you are right. The evidence in early childhood development suggests we are carefully (or otherwise) taught to fear and therefore separate. Most advanced spiritual thinking will posit that our notion of separateness is an illusion….the greatest of all.
David Treppendahl Eric Grandich this is fascinating and very apt to the current discussion topic. Thanks for posting it. Give Elizabeth my best.
David Treppendahl Lot of good and thoughtful exchanges. May the Holy Spirit utilize our posts to enlighten our understanding of what is true and righteous in the Eyes of God.
JC Cartwright Wow – this thread will go far. I agree with you David Treppendahl. It is said that knowledge is power – and the “Fall” in the Garden of Eden exemplifies that desire for knowledge (and power). We can trace the origin of all sin back to that moment. Racism itself is nothing more than exerting power over another human being and classifying a group by the color of their skin makes it easy to identify those not in your TRIBE.
As for the Old Testament God, everyone needs to read every word and every story outlined in the OT. God was indeed a jealous God and commanded his people to slaughter other tribes – lots of stories there about those inconvenient bon mots that opposes what many believe that Jesus taught.
I had an EfM (Education for Ministry) mentor who once said, “Every story in the Bible is true, some of it really happened”.
Up until WW II, almost every war was conducted as “Economic Conquest”. The Marshall Plan was a paradigm shift in the way a conqueror treated the conquered.
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